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Thread: America's Cup venue for 2007

  1. #1

    Default America's Cup venue for 2007

    The announcement was made in Geneva today (11/26/2003):

    Valencia is the winner

    This was the expected outcome, so no huge surprise. You can see the webcast of the announcement at http://www.americascup.com

    CupInfo.com will be adding a piece focusing directly on Valencia soon, but feel free to take a look at our pre-announcement Valencia page:

    CupInfo's Valencia information

    --------------
    Regards,

    Matt

    http://www.cupinfo.com

  2. #2
    lorsail Guest

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    Thanks, Matt! I wonder who we root for now that nationalism is a thing of the past. I mean does New Zealand have two teams for the next Cup -Oracle and Alinghi or are those teams representing some other country? Or is this the first 100% Corporate Americas Cup? Like maybe: "The Bertarelli Pharmaceuticals Americas Cup"?
    I wonder if the new found Super Commercialism will help or hurt the Auld Mug?
    And what about the boats? It will be interesting to see what the new rules do.... Used to be an America's Cup boat was sort of a pinnacle of sailing yacht design. With boats like maxZ86's, Genuine Risk, Maiden Hong Kong, Wild Oats, Zana, Mari Cha and others roaming around I'm sadly not sure that's going to continue to be true...

    Doug Lord
    microsail.com
    monofoiler.com
    High Technology Sailing/Racing

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Doug

    there cutting edge, there pushing the bounds of fluid dynamics. I have seen some of the cfd code that they run.

    i don't think there will be any canting keels next cup. i have heard some talk that it wouldn't be safe from a structural stand point.

    -Dan

  4. #4

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    i would like to see the americas cup go back to the national route. there was a sort of feel to the cup then. I was talking with friends about this one and he did not care to watch. it was still kiwis beating kiwis. not swiss beat new zealand. I come from Canada. and am proud of Canada 1. i was looking forward to seeing canada there. but now that is still possible but who will steer? american? kiwi? aussie. will the next series of boat have to be design around new set of rules, so that they can stand up?
    cougar

  5. #5
    lorsail Guest

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    Dan, there may not be canting keels THIS time but it won't be because of structural problems! A canting keel would allow the boats to maintain their maximum righting moment with 50% less ballast AND could allow a lite air sail area increase as well. That spells speed with no structural concerns whatsoever.
    The current IACC boats compared to state of the art monohulls their size(maxZ86's) have less sail area, WAY more weight and are much slower. Not a formula for TV excitement which the new "Corporate Cup" is definitely going to need. Using outdated relatively low tech boats as compared to the higher technology that is available is probably a mistake. Not only that but a lot of respected designers such as Jim Pugh think that by allowing the new technology everybody would be on a more even playing field as compared to the huge advantage the two top Corporate teams have now. I think there is something to that and I think if something serious isn't done to the rule to allow much faster boats the Cup will be eclipsed by huge advances in monohull speed technology taking place now or on the drawing board...

    Doug Lord
    microsail.com
    monofoiler.com
    High Technology Sailing/Racing

  6. #6
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    Speed doesn?t mean anything when you boats sitting at the bottom of the Mediterranean.


    That?s what some of the engineers are worried about. The way it was explained to me was the following. There is a tacking dual going on and your opponent throws you a dummy tack. It?s too late you have already set your keel in motion and are head to wind. You throw the helm over to get back on your old tack and, slam the brakes on your keel. Just as your straining the hull trying to stop that 20 ton keel the wind grabs the sails. Ever heard carbon fiber break? It?s not a pretty sound. Now let?s throw in some ruff chop and it only gets uglier.

    -Dan

    The AC is about tactics not speed. If it was about speed they would be racing 130 foot tri's




  7. #7

    Default

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dansherman



    The AC is about tactics not speed. If it was about speed they would be racing 130 foot tri's




    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Absolutely correct Dan!! We have already lost some of this spirit when we lost the 12s. I can't imagine a more boring race then two canting keel boats refraining from tactics due to a too complicated of a system to do them with. The beauty of this race is absolutely the tactical duels of the crews, not how fast the boats are due to new technology! Who really wants to watch two boats race in a straight line for three months?
    Yes these boats are really wonderful to watch and real beauties. To watch these teams race all Catalina 50s would be a bit slow. I do appreciate the tech of these boats, but when it comes down to hindering tactics, it?s a bad idea.

  8. #8
    lorsail Guest

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    Dan, you must have talked to somebody that's never engineered a canting keel! CBTF is reltively new(about8 years old) but canting keels have been around over twenty years and engineering them properly is not rocket science. Schock 40's use them on inshore courses all the time and of course they have been on ocean racers forever. The fact that by using a canting keel the ballast can be cut in half will potentially REDUCE some loads in way of the keel-or in the worst case keep them as they are while keeping rigging loads more or less as they are now(same maximum righting moment). For instance, since the ballast would be 50% of what it is now the pitching moment imparted to the hull by the lead bulb will be drastically less!
    And to suggest that if the boats go faster tactics go out the window is just not true--geez all these same arguments were made 15 years ago or so about the IACC boats versus the 12's. New technology brings speed , tactics and new and exciting challenges and would re-invigorate the Cup---even ,or should I say most especially, the "Corporate Cup.
    When I was a kid and racing all along the Gulf Coast of the US everybody I sailed with and against felt that the America's Cup was the pinnacle of sailing and that the 12's were the highest development of a proper sailboat.Times change and to suggest that it's ok to have IACC boats be slow and not at the top of the technological end of sailing yacht design strikes me as somehow sacrilegeous. Especially under the new system of trying to maximize TV coverage.Even Coutts has said he'd like to see a much more powered up boat--and so would a hell of a lot of other people.

    Doug Lord
    microsail.com
    monofoiler.com
    High Technology Sailing/Racing

  9. #9
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    I'll throw somthing in here too! Fast boats are just as tactical as slow boats, but with the added bonus with a fast boat that you have to think quicker, making it more exciting to both take part in and watch. The dinghy class i sail is about the closest youll get to a skiff upwind, but Ive often got in full on tacking duels with my nearest rivals, a great example being last weekend in a club race when we were tack on tack for a one mile beat up a strip probally less than 200 yards (to keep out of the tide)planeing upwind all the way.

    AC to me at the moment seems out of date and doesnt help the sport, as in the UK at least were trying to shead saillings image as a sport for the rich only. If these people with the money really want to help the sport they should throw their money into real development, instead of coming up with useless concepts like the hula and trying to get that 0.05% more speed all the time. When you compare an Open 60 with a ACC boat, the ACC boat is a dinosaur. An 18' Skiff goes faster, is more exciting and can be just as tactical to sail -for a fraction of the cost.
    Rant over!

    If its not blowing it sucks!

  10. #10

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    Even the 12 meters were not the latest technology. The AC boat is meant to look good to spectators. It's never been about making the highest tech/fastest boat out there. For $500 any average person could go out and buy windsurfing gear and go faster.

    How on earth will adding CBTF help even the odds for the poorer syndicates. They still will not have the resources that the richer syndicates do to develop and testing. It won't level the playing field at all.

    Let's just admit the cub isn't about racing the fastest boats. Even a Volvo/Whitbread 60 could have beaten an IACC boat. Most maxi boats probably could as well. The rule is written to make large boats that look good are are atleast somewhat close in speed. The first section of the IACC rule states that.

    What would make the event better is to force them to race regardless of the conditions. It's rediculous that they don't race in 20mph winds.

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