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Thread: Let put our old MARBLEHEADS on the water

  1. #1

    Default Let put our old MARBLEHEADS on the water

    XMAS TO ALL

    I found IOM Class Rules very restrictive.
    Supposing I could use another (the third) servo, where do I would apply it in order to have a better boat performace?

    I found MARBLEHEAD Class Rules very restrictive, as well.
    Most of us have one or two Marbleheads at the garage waiting for a better time. I intende to put my Paradox on the water and have some friends to race with and with some changes on Class rules like a third servo input. May be this "Class" could grow up with a new interest using our old designs we have
    Regards

    I found that in terms of costs they are now at the same level (look at prices of the existing designs in production)

    THE SAILOR

  2. #2

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    I wonder how it would work out if a new set of measurement specs were posted. Not as an attempt to see changing the existing M Class Rules, but as an attempt to see if twenty or more interested folks would send AMYA the $5.00 to register their boat and start a new class. Call it the Retro M?

    New Measurement Specs would need to include...

    A Maximum Draft (typical of a 1980's M) so that the boat could be launched without wearing chest waders and be sailed in a pond that might have weeds.

    A Minimum Displacement and Minimum Hull Weight (typical of the 1980's) so that a boat can be put together by the homebuilder using FG or wood.

    A Jib that is Tacked to the Hull Centerline (typical of the 1980's) so that the boat looks like a sailboat. Swing-rigs lurching around before the start are an awful, but comical, distraction.

    A seaworthy decking material (typical of the 1980's) so that things hold together a bit better.

    Rich Matt

  3. #3

    Default

    Hey Rich
    I presume you live in USA
    You begin to talk registering money.
    That's not the point.
    All changes begin with a test time, looking for a better demanding apeal
    This is not an official class to creat at this time, but "IF" there are more than "20" or so sailors that fells this aproach interesting ....
    The main interest now is:
    What is the most important point you want to be "self tunned" on your boat. As you could understand there are several opinion on this matter. What is yours?
    Regards
    THE SAILOR

  4. #4

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    cont. from previous replay
    I said "self tunned" but with the third servo it will be "on demand tunned"
    Regards
    THE SAILOR

  5. #5

    Default

    Must be some misunderstanding--the Marblehead rule allows an unlimited number of servos and functions, restrictions are on the number of moving underwater appendages and moving ballast.

    I see no need for another spin off "classic" class. There is already a Vintage Marblehead group for boats from the 1960's and earlier. As to swing rigs and flimsy decks, the US National Champion for virtually all of the last ten years, the Skapel, has neither.

    Basically, the M is a high performance development class, I think it should stay that way. Hopefully, in the US this year there will be some increase in activity.

  6. Default

    Just me two cents here-
    I'd LOVE to have a development class that lets me make a boat without too much difficulty, With close to the performance of a hightec M, and without needing hip boots to get it in the water. Personnaly I don't think restricting keel depth and hull weight would harm the level of development possibiliy at all in a development class.

    My theory is all classes fit a niche, if you know what I mean, and getting the thing into the water is a pretty good niche. What is the true definition of a Niche? I think when a whole bunch of people think an Idea is pretty cool and it hasn't been done yet. One Niche need not detract at all from another niche.

    To me, restrictions like keel depth and hull weight are not limitations but opportunities to make it better.

    Cheers.

  7. #7
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    As an example, I have several sets of templates for an "M" Class boat - newer than 1960's but nowhere near the technical and performance level of the current "M" class boats.

    BUT ... the question is why build using an older design, if it falls into the "grey area" between "Vintage" classes and current technology/design classes? One would spend an inordinate amout of time and effort building only to have something that is neither "fish nor fowl".

    If Rich is proposing something to pick up the "missing years" - and there is some kind of category rating system as new boats become old boats, and old boats become "older" boats, I would be interested. Certainly would rather put money into a class that would accepting of these "lost year" boats.

    In fact, in the case of development classes (including the IOM) some sort of program might aid in the resale and reuse of the older versions of a class instead of them being relegated to the garage, basement or attic. The question is "Who wants to buy a non-competitive boat?" And the answer is ???????

    Good idea, Rich.... please expand upon it a bit with more detail - if you will.

  8. #8

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    John: The boat you described-- performance close to an IOM with a depth restriction that can be put together by a home builder-- is pretty close to the definition of the IOM.

    As to what to do with outdated boats and equipment--it seems to me that creating new classes for each type of boat that gets outdated could be pretty fragmenting. Do we really want a Vintage Star 45 class? Marbleheads of the 80's class? Marbleheads of the 90's class? Pre-Sterne US1Ms? Non-proportional winch class? The list can go on and on...

  9. #9
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    John buld a 3R it's real close to what your talking about.

    -Dan

  10. #10
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    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Roy Langbord

    As to what to do with outdated boats and equipment--it seems to me that creating new classes for each type of boat that gets outdated could be pretty fragmenting. Do we really want a Vintage Star 45 class? Marbleheads of the 80's class? Marbleheads of the 90's class? Pre-Sterne US1Ms? Non-proportional winch class? The list can go on and on...
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    Hi Roy - I can see this could become a very interesting topic for discussion and viewpoints.......

    unfortunately (or not) we are already faced with this prospect - boats that aren't one-design, perfectly good for "someone" to sail, but virtually nothing out there in which to compete. In the case of the "M"'s for example, based on the current technology - and based on the Vintage Class - the 1970's, 1980's and much of the 1990's are "Dead" since these nearly 30 years of model boat building have no where to participate. They are, in essence "garbage" and with exception of mantel, daysailing, or family heritage - have little value.

    Maybe the Vintage Class needs to consider a number of years of historic presence, instead of a fixed year limit ... example: boats at least 20 years old versus boat "built in 1970". This would at least provide a moving timeline similar to historic cars, in that it addresses boats that are old, but still viable. I do not know as I write this post, but intend to find out, if the Vintage classes require building to be done - or just the age of the design. If it is building - then AMYA needs to remove a few sets of boat plans that are from within the 30 years of "outdated" designs from it's "store".

    Now - I agree that it would be improbable to support a class of ten years duration, as there would be a new class every ten years, but on the same token, isn't AMYA there for the promotion of all r/c sailing - and by simply ignoring a time period, those who have these older types of boats have nothing provided for them. A lot of time, work, effort and money went into the building of these boats, and what is left is only a conversation piece? I think many people would find such an investment as silly, and a waste of time and money.

    Shouldn't we ( AMYA members) be working towards preserving and providing a place for the old designs to continue racing? How many of the old designs were lost before the Vintage Group was formed? How many boats for the early 1950's were trashed because they were outdated? Do we really NOT care about our model boat histories?

    Interesting topic and one that perhaps needs further discussion. What are available options - and what are we to do with a boat that isn't at the cutting edge of technology? I know you have a pretty significant investment in your Scalpel M - but when it does become obsolete in performance to a newer design - what are your plans? Will it be dismantled? If for sale who would purchase and why? Where do old boats go and what does one do with them when they are no longer the current design? Sure - some will wind up as club racers, but many don't have the disposable income to move up on every technology change. "Don't play in a class you can't afford" is probably a suggestion - especially for development classes, but is that really the message we want to send to new owners?

    Great topic - and I for one would like to explore further, what alternatives there are for the boats built, sailed and raced during the "lost years".

    To the readers: please offer your insights, opinions and views. What are your thoughts?

    <font color="blue"><u>UPDATE/EDIT:</u>
    I just checked, and it appears that it is the design dateline - not actual construction that rules (at least) the Vintage M Class. I was not able to detect with my quick review, of any specific datelines - but rather it seems it is design characteristics which govern the VM Class (not limited to but most obvious is the type/design of the keel). Perhaps this does cover the issues and questions posed above. Maybe Earl Bobert can/will comment as he seems to have a handle on the "vintage" side of things. Earl ??? If you are out there? </font id="blue">

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